An interview with:
BRUCE FLEISHER

RAND JERRIS: It's a pleasure to be joined by Bruce Fleisher, Bruce is a two-time USGA champion having won the '68.

BRUCE FLEISHER: I forgot about that one.

RAND JERRIS: And the U.S. Senior and Saucon Valley. Maybe can you start us off by talking about what it means to be Senior Open champion.

BRUCE FLEISHER: Well, I said it again and over and over again, the Champion's Tour is set up a little bit differently. I still feel like not so much myself because I don't want to key on that particular thing. But I don't think the Champion's TOUR is getting the credibility it deserves. Unfortunately you are working against the regular TOUR. I think if you see the name recognition today it's pretty impressive when you go out there on the driving range and you see guys that I grew up with 20, 25 years ago. This is my fifth year out here. It's pretty competitive. I got to tell you. It's even getting more so. In another year or so we got Jay Hass coming a board, Peter Jacobsen, Loren Roberts; it just goes on and on. What it means to me something they could never take away from me. It's pride, it's ego. What it did for me was put money in the bank, guys, I can't be any more frank than that. You are never going to be a superstar unless you have made your life in the past. The Champion's Tour can give you respect.

But really other than the fact that you are trying to have the time of your life. After the fact, certainly after 50, I'm trying to obtain that goal. I'm trying to enjoy myself a little bit more; not having to test myself week in and week out anymore. I have had four and a half wonderful years. I come to Inverness and it's like hitting a brick wall. You have a tough golf course this week. What it means to me? Whatever. Whatever. I got a beautiful trophy at home that I had to pay for. I quite haven't figured that one out but that's okay.

RAND JERRIS: Can you talk about the golf course maybe compared to Saucon Valley where you had some success two years ago.

BRUCE FLEISHER: He likes Saucon Valley, I got beat by Hale Irwin at Saucon Valley.

RAND JERRIS: Salem.

BRUCE FLEISHER: Salem. I know you are nervous, this is your first time. (Laughter) I like to forget Saucon Valley especially the second shot I hit against Irwin. But that may have been more exciting actually than last year or two years ago because it was after the fact, going into the last round with Irwin with a 3-shot lead. I don't think I really blew it. But I lost to Hale who played an impeccable round of golf. When I won at Salem I am waiting in the clubhouse anxiously for about 30 minutes not knowing the outcome until Colbert, you know, made bogey on the last hole.

This golf course, ladies and gentlemen, I remember it, I think I last played it when Azinger beat Norman in a playoff. What year was that? '93? '93? And I don't think it's really changed much. It was hard then. It may be harder now because I'm older. But after playing yesterday, experiencing what these guys are going to experience this week, this is a good test.

Of all of the opens, I think that I played, especially on the Senior Tour, this is by far the toughest set-up. The greens are unforgiving. Not really knowing where the pin is going to be I can only imagine what is going to be in store for us. So it's in perfect condition. It looks like the weather is going to cooperate. So it should be exciting. To predict a score, I think over par is going to do it. I don't know how many over par. It could be from A to Z. But it's not a whole lot of birdie opportunities. Even though there are some short holes, obviously you got to keep the ball in play. The rough is penalizing for most parts. It's just plain hard, guys. It's just plain hard.

RAND JERRIS: Take some questions out here.

Q. You won in 2001 at Salem after a spell as a club pro and this is your Senior Open championship. Now Don Pooley wins last year as a qualifier. Does that play into your opinion of the fact that maybe this Champion's Tour does deserve some recognition; there is that large quality of talent out there that people aren't recognizing?

BRUCE FLEISHER: Well, I just think, again, we got such quality out here now and such diversification. Unfortunately Hale, I read has pulled out which is sad. I just hope that he gets well quick. I just can't imagine him not being here this week. I would certainly pin him as the favorite if he could play with his experience, you know, how he can manage himself around the golf course. I think it's wide open. Right now with Lietzke and Stadler, there is just so many possibilities. I don't know who would be favored this week.

Doug Tewell played wonderful last Sunday; he is driving the ball straight and long and certainly high on his win. Don, I don't think has recovered from his shoulder surgery. I don't know how well he is playing at the moment. But again, earlier you can't take it away from him, it's a wonderful, wonderful win; certainly something I'll remember the rest of my days. Wendy called me this morning, was trying to give me a pep talk, try to go back and remember the feeling that you had at Salem and at Saucon Valley. Just concentrate on those good things, you know. One shot at a time. Par is a good score. Don't panic. Don't make that terrible mistake of losing your concentration, you know. Be patient, really. Bottom line be patient. That's what you got to be this week, very patient. Everyone is going to get frustrated. The greens are difficult, the putting is difficult. That's why par is going to be a very good score this week. I don't know if that answers your question.

Q. Bruce, you just mentioned the greens in passing but you said the course is a little like kicking a brick wall; can you offer some specifics about what makes it so tough and what the major challenge is going to be?

BRUCE FLEISHER: Well, I think what is so frustrating for some of these guys. Again, I'm speaking for myself and not for the field, as you saw -- of course, Sunday I think it brought most of the players to it's knees in Chicago where we had played the PGA the week before and where you couldn't move it 30 feet out of the rough and these guys are knocking it on the green from 200 yards. We come here this week and I have got to tell you it's another pitching and wedging out. It's imperative. You keep the ball in play. I think this golf course keeps you off balance. As short as like the 10th hole is, you can't really see your landing area. You just got to keep the ball in the fairway. You know, I think, depending on different players you got some dog legs here where it keeps you off balance where the fairway rolls against you. Visually it's very intimidating.

Q. There is a 5-hole stretch that begins with No. 3, can you talk about that? There are two pretty good par-3s in there, two of Ross's better par-4's; is that a stretch that could really determine some things this week? Is that one of those where if you get a round of even par for four days you are ahead of the game?

BRUCE FLEISHER: You know what; I got in yesterday, I jumped over to No. 4. So I didn't see the first three holes. But 4 is certainly a demanding golf hole. 5 is a great golf hole. 6 is that long par-3; is that correct? Yes, a real long par-3. 7 is a difficult par-4. I would have to go along with you. There is a stretch there that if you can get through that quarter hole even par. Again, the whole golf course, you can't lay down anywhere there. Any hole can come up and grab you, whether it's 10, 11. It just doesn't really matter. You got to keep the ball in play and you got to put it on the green. You got to put it in position a where you can 2-putt. If you get opportunities to make birdie, great. But that's what Opens are all about.

You know, par is supposed to be a good score today. There is some talent around the world that defies that, unfortunately the way the courses are set up. Maybe this is the way they should be set up all the time. You probably wouldn't have guys hitting it 330 yards, you know.

Q. What do you think about the 18th hole? Does it seem different than most holes? Is there anything unusual about it? You just said hitting 330 yards, can you be real close to that hole and have some problems?

BRUCE FLEISHER: Well, actually, you know I hadn't seen it this year. I will see it today. I saw the 9th hole which again there is another hole that you got to keep in that fairway. The key aim is down left center; if you hit it left center you knock it through the fairway.

How long is 18?

Q. 334?

BRUCE FLEISHER: Maybe some guys like John Jacob or Jim Thorpe or some of these other kids, I don't know. They probably could put it right there in front. I don't know how tough that little pitch shot is.

Q. (Inaudible)

? BRUCE FLEISHER: There you go. I don't know if a long ball driver has an advantage this week at all. In fact, I don't think he does. I think he is better off taking his 3-wood out most of the time.

RAND JERRIS: Bruce, you talked about the difficulty of the golf course, the difficulty of the course set up, does that change the way you prepare for a round each morning.

BRUCE FLEISHER: Not really. I know my game; what I got to do. It's a good pace, good rhythm. Not get ahead of myself. Keep that ball in front of me, really. You will not score out of the rough here, I can guarantee you that. I think the big key this week is driving the ball in the fairway and somehow getting it on the green. You don't want to miss too many greens trying to pitch out of that rough to these pin placements. It's just difficult all the way around.

Q. I have a question again about the golf course. You are the second person who has told me today that the score is going to be high here. It's going to be really tough. What do you think the reaction of the public is going to be if an over par course would win the turn, say 5 over or 6 over or something of that nature?

BRUCE FLEISHER: Of what I have learned, I don't know if the public really cares. It may sound cold. That's up to you writers; the way you perceive it, the way you present it, the way you write it. I get a little annoyed. I think it's okay for those young kids, for us. It's a challenge. I think your great players will rise to the occasion, bottom line. You are always going to have those guys at the bottom that will complain, but that's okay, that's what makes horse races. If it's over par, if that's what Inverness needs or wants or desires, so be it. Personally speaking I like to have a little bit more fun. This could be a situation where one guy could really run away from it if he is really on. And the rest of the field is kind of lackluster. I think it's more enjoyable for the public viewing if you had a horse race. Rather than a massacre. And you know what, physically, too, you got four days. This golf course is up and down. It's not an easy walk out there for anybody. So you got conditions to factor in to that. And I would be curious to listen to the Palmers  -- Trevino is not here this week. Floyd. I would be interested to hear the comments, Jack, Watson. It will all be positive I'm sure. These guys are great champions. They have been through as tough conditions. I think the club pros that come in here, they probably have an awakening, you know.

Q. This might be a little bit personal. 2 parts. What are you reading right now and what do you do to relax to get away from the game?

BRUCE FLEISHER: It is personal.

Q. Okay.

BRUCE FLEISHER: I got a few things on my mind that I would rather not discuss, okay? It's hard to get away from the game. I don't really work at it tremendously hard in the form of practice. I think about it mentally a lot. You know, our TOUR, this TOUR, especially is geared to playing a lot of golf. Because of a couple of things, No. 1, the money list. No. 2, the Charles Cup points. And No. 3, you don't particularly want to play in 2 pro-ams, so you want to finish high on the money list so you don't have to play Wednesday and Thursday. Not that it's a negative, but it's hard. You have to remember something, there is no cut, so you are playing 4 to 5 days straight almost every week. And at this stage of our lives, there is a lot of impactions. There is a lot of physical fitness. I work out a lot. That consumes a lot of my time. That seems to relax me and gets me away from this. But, you know, I'm on the road 35 weeks a year. It doesn't give you much time at home. By the time you get home it's time to come back out so you try to prepare. I don't read as much as I should. Right now I am reading a book, if you really want to know, it's about blood types, and some of you may be familiar with it. Some of you may not. But it's got to do with nutrition. Let's say if you are a type A blood, there are certain foods that you should stay away from. So first off, you have to find out what type blood you are. This book is pretty close, it's good. It will keep you healthy. Longer anyway.

Q. I need to read that book.

BRUCE FLEISHER: I will bring it in for you. It's true. You will be surprised, you may be eating some foods that you think are healthy for you that really aren't because of your blood type. A very interesting book.

Q. As a follow-up question, at one time we always thought that 50 or 60 was real old so what do you see in your lifetime that maybe a sun screen is something that has changed it? You are talking about nutrition now, I don't think 50 years ago they thought much about nutrition, have you seen the game changed if we want to call them the senior person?

BRUCE FLEISHER: Well, I think, you know, the bodies that control us, the board, we took the name senior and we changed it to champion which I think right here sets a light that we no longer want to be old or called old. What is senior any way? 65? I don't know. 50, 55. We have become a golf TOUR. Now, I don't know if that's a good thing.

And the reason why I say that is that it started out being a reunion, a bunch of guys getting together and all of a sudden there was a need for it. There were people out there that enjoyed it. And then the money was thrown in there, the camaraderie, and the personalities, whether it was Don January, Miller Barber, Lee Trevino, Chi Chi Rodriguez.

Well, unfortunately time passes on. Some of us get old. And those personalities are now gone. The money is bigger. It's become corporate. It's become dig dollars, big business. It's become a wonderful place for corporate America to entertain there people and the guys from the other TOUR are seeing how this is growing and saying wait a minute, here is another chance to further something I love and make a lot of money doing it.

So what do you do? You get in shape. You know, you try to stay as healthy as you can. You try to stay free from injury. And you know Health South has done a hell of a job out here for us on both tours. I think on the lady's TOUR, too. You get hurt, you go in, they fix you up. There is even a fitness man out here that makes us bigger and stronger. Jerry, are you tired? Did you get much sleep last night? (Laughter) At what point do you say to yourself I had enough? Is it 62-years old?

You know when you compete -- I will tell you what's sad in my life. I will tell you what's sad in my life and I do it to myself. I competed so much now through my whole life I have been competitive playing, whether it's the PGA TOUR or the Champion's Tour, that when I go home I choose to play by myself. And the reason being when I do play with a group of guys, they are always trying to beat you. And I am tired of that. I want to go home, relax and have fun playing. I want to shoot 80 and not gave a damn. But I'm not allowed to in my own mind. Maybe I am getting away from your question. I don't know, I am 55 in October, I feel fair. My arm hurts, my knee hurts, my hip hurts, but you go on. This is going to be a grueling test. This is four days of just pure golf.

Q. Is there a player or 2 that you would think might fit this golf course?

BRUCE FLEISHER: I think Doug Tewell would fit it. If I had my dollars, I watched him play Sunday. He hit the ball awfully good. He just drove the ball so well. I think that's really the key here. Like I said, you know, driving the ball, hitting the greens, making pars. You don't have to do much more than that. I mean if I was to pick one man, you know, other than myself.

RAND JERRIS: Bruce, thanks very much for your time. We wish you luck this week.

BRUCE FLEISHER: Thank you, guys. Hope to see you.

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